STEAM Classrooms to Careers

So, hey everyone. My name is Antoinette Ellis. I am the CEO and co-founder of Ace and Co, which is a enterprise, which is helps young girls find careers in science, technology, engineering, arts and math, and young adults too.

And all my friends call me.

That’s awesome. So talk to me a little bit about a co because I don’t think that you and I have had a direct conversation about your entrepreneurial journey and like your company. And what I find fascinating is that it’s connected directly to steam, which is of course what we do. So, um, talk to me a little about how did you found it, Um, how do you find people to recruit?

Talk about it. I would.

Okay. Sounds great. So a couple years ago I was working for a global IT company and we were working with students with a student technology program. But I noticed that we still needed a lot more work. Like we’re not engaging the young girls and they’re not aware of all the different career opportunities there were.

So I was talking to my husband, I was like, I wanna do more. I wanna do more than just, cuz we also do like public speaking and stuff like that. I wanna be more integrated in building that pipeline. I was talking to a friend of mine, I said, I wanna help young women find careers in steam. I wanna help young girls get on that pathway, that journey.

And he said, Well, sounds to me like you wanna do like a recruiting firm. . I never really thought about that. So my husband and I, we were thinking, Okay, let’s see what would this look like? And because I have a passion of just motivating people and, and finding their dream, it seemed like a good fit to see, okay, how can we work with young people to help them understand what’s really out there?

And that’s how the idea came. Then one thing led to another, just having discussions with non-profit organizations that are also having the same, um, goal and working with, um, other organizations as well that says, Okay, we see there’s a need as well. So how do we all come together to collaborate to. To make this a real thing.

Um, but that wasn’t enough for me cuz I was like, okay, if I’m gonna speak about Steam, I wanna be able to talk about really what is it? Because as you know, Susan, there’s that whole what stem, what steam, what’s the difference kind of thing. And that’s how I found your school integration of arts. Um, and. and I thought it was perfect because now this kind of gives me the solid foundation that I can actually speak about arts integration in exactly what it is opposed to seeing, you know, teachers and students, you know, okay, let’s build a robot and let’s paint it.

Um, obviously it’s a lot more than that. So, um, after graduating from your program, Uh, started having a lot of discussions and speaking engagements about steam and what the important is, and right now we’re looking at seeing how we can build that out even

further. That is amazing. like, and it’s such a, it’s such a needed, first of all, it’s such a needed component, right?

It is missing. We talk a lot about girls in STEM and that STEAM could be a way to engage more girls in the STEM areas, right? Mm-hmm. , but very, very little, I think is actually done to place those, to give those girls those opportunities, right? Like we. Um, might engage them in STEAM activities, but then what?

Right. Yeah. Um, I know in our household, Um, and I talk about Emma a lot, right? My teenager. But she is actually, she loves art, she loves visual art. She’s also, she very much has my husband’s ability to put things together and is fascinated by like welding and engineering. And so she’s looking at lots of different career possibilities.

Right? And so she’s landed on architecture for right now. Mm-hmm. and which is amazing. Kevin and I are both like, Well, there’s other, There are other career options out there other than just architecture, right? You might want to make sure that you’re looking at all of the opportunities, but we found that it’s a real struggle to find programs and careers, uhhuh, , that are already.

Right. For, um, for students who are interested in those things, right? Like how do we combine our interest in engineering and art and math in a way that makes sense and what careers exist and what careers are being developed, right? Yes. Um, so is that part of what your company does is tries to help them identify those things and also place them?

Yeah, well, yes. Also place them there depending, So definitely wanna explore like what your two passions are, because we all have more than one passion. And if you remember, like your parents will always say, Make sure you have a backup plan. You know, you can’t make a living through arts in this day and age.

You actually can, right? Mm-hmm. . So, uh, one of the things I did as well is I had. Had a, uh, conversation with my, my daughter. She co-hosted an event with me where we, uh, interviewed Dr. Merit Moore, who is a professional ballerina and quantum physicist. Mm-hmm. , how amazing is that, that this individual is able to bring her two passions together and make a living out of it, So mm-hmm.

being able to have that, that webinar and the. And help other kids then see here’s someone that’s actually doing it and that’s actual possible. So we wanna do more of that too. Have more conversations with individuals that are doing that. Because there’s so many times where we think that you have to stay in this box.

If you went to school for this, you’ve gotta stay in that. That’s not the case. You can actually bring your passions together and that’s what we wanna help help people figure.

Yeah, cuz how often, I’m sure that you haven’t, and I know that I haven’t, How often have we, um, been in one career for our entire life.

Right, Exactly. This doesn’t happen anymore.

Exactly. And when it comes to, uh, finding work, Yeah. So there are organizations and companies out there that are saying, You know what, We’re realizing we want to hire more women in these fields, but not enough women are applying, or not enough women are in the.

The education field for it. And then we’re also exploring to look out, okay, so when you look at university and whatnot, but we’re also seeing a gap that there’s not enough women that are actually staying in the program. So there’s still a lot of work to do. We still have to explore. Like where is the disconnect?

So if we get them interested at a younger age as we know it’s so important, but when they get to that point to university, how do we make sure that they stay in there? How do we make sure that they graduate? How do we make sure that they get into careers that are fulfilling and how do we make sure that we get them into jobs that want to make sure that these women excel in these, in these

careers?

So I’m curious, like, what is, Have you found some of the reasons for the gaps? Um, at the university level? At the

university level? Not quite yet. So that was just, it’s still a breaking point, like, Okay, what’s going on now? One thing I’ve noticed, um, with myself, even with younger girls is we tell ourselves at a young age that something is too hard.

So we tell ourselves at a young age that, Oh, math is too hard. So we already decided. We don’t wanna do anything with math, but the thing is, a lot of the career is out there. You’re gonna need math, you’re gonna need not math for regular everyday life. I wish somebody told me that. Right, right. I dunno if it’s a matter of when they get to university, if it gets too difficult, they’re like, Maybe I should switch or go to something easier.

But the point is not to go for something easier. But maintain. So figure out how can you, if you have a passion in that, don’t let something turn you down because you feel like you’re not excelling in, you know, in math or whatever it is that’s causing the difficulty. Finding ways to overcome that. Maybe it’s a tutor, maybe it’s finding a mentor who’s gone through it, who will.

Knows the difficulties and can I help? You can overcome that. The thing is, we can’t, um, encourage our students to always find the easy way out cuz you are not going to find the, the goal at the end of the rainbow. Like you, we have to be able to understand, like you have to step out of your comfort zone.

So we gotta make sure that these kids understand that even though it’s difficult, that’s gonna step outta your comfort zone to get you into the career that you, that you possibly want to explore.

. Mm-hmm. . Absolutely. And I, that resonates so much with me. I’ve seen that in myself, in, in my daughter, in other girls that I’ve taught that, um, not only do they tell themselves I’m not good at or this is hard, um, and I, and therefore, because I want to be.

Good at something, and this is hard for me. I wanna, I wanna move to something else, right where I could shine, which I think is a natural human tendency, I think for girls in particular. And, and, um, and I’d love your opinion on this as well, the idea that I don’t belong in this space. Oh, right. Um, like for example, um, with Emma, with her welding, like she, she does that on the side with my dad as just a, a fun project that they do together, right?

Mm-hmm. . Um, and I said to her, You know, you could go into welding. That’s a very well paying career. It’s something that we definitely need with trade school. And her perception is, no, no, no. That’s something that boys do. That’s not, that’s not what girls do. Or, um, that’s, and there’s a side of this that’s not prestigious enough, right?

Like, I wanna be a, an academic, I wanna have a career. And something like welding doesn’t necessarily appeal to her because she is a girl. And I see that with a lot of girls that they classify careers almost by.

Yeah. Do you see that? Yes, definitely. Yes. And this is why the conversation has to start as early as elementary school that these girls belong in the spaces as where they see the men.

If we can get women to start looking into those spaces and saying, You know what? I belong here. Then they’re setting an example for the younger girls are coming up to see that, hey, Maybe I can be in that space too. But here’s the thing as well. We talk about a lot about women empowerment, which is so awesome, but guess what?

We need the men as allies too. Those men that are in those fields already, we need them to encourage our girls to be like, Oh yeah, you definitely could have a space here. There is room more than enough room here. You take up all the room that you, you need. The thing is we keep thinking. Um, streamlining, like, This is the particular career that I should be in.

This is what I should be striving for. This is what, you know, I need to be able to pay my bills every two weeks, and this is what’s gonna do that and give me the house and whatever have you. But there’s a whole world out there that says, No . You can explore. You can be that engineer. You can be whatever it is that you want to be and make a living out of it.

I love watching. Home garden television and looking at all these amazing women designers and contractors that are doing the hard work. And I’m like, Yes, wake up space . We need more of that. Not just in that field, but in all

fields, right? Mm-hmm. . Yes. Yes. And how so? Um, it’s an, and it’s something that I think I’ve, I’ve thought of, but it not necessarily upfront in, in.

In the, the past about bringing men on as allies? Yes. Um, because, and, and having them recognize, because I think, uh, you and I could po probably both tell stories of being in rooms with men where it has felt like a challenge, like it has been. Um, the underlying, you know, modem, operandi is you’re a woman, you don’t necessarily belong here, and we’ve had to fight Yes.

To be in the room, right? Yes. Yes. Um, I think all women could identify a moment at least once in their life where they’ve had that in their career. Um, and rather than having to fight all the time, having allies with those men who recognize you do belong here, rather than having to fight in the room, we’re working together.

How do you think, like what are some ways that we could possibly work towards that

having. So for me, like if you, I talk about my personal experience. Some of my amazing mentors have been men who recognize a talent in me or recognize, you know, what I’m able to do and, um, building, you know, a working relationship where they’re like, Okay, yes.

I wanna mentor you, I can guide you on certain things. So not only do we have, it’s amazing to have like women entrepreneurs as you know, a guest speak in your classroom, but have the men too that say Yes. We wanna encourage girls and, and let them know that there is space for them. Have them come into the classroom as well.

Because the reality is, Susan, when we go out into the work world, guess what? Chances of us working with a all woman company, Dealing with just women in business is not a reality. There are some out there, but you are going to have to work with the other gender as well. So we gotta figure out how to collaborate with each other, right?

Mm-hmm. . And so we can’t just, you know, X out like the men, like women of empowerment. Yes, that’s amazing. But we have to work together and bringing in those men as allies, as mentors as well, also helps.

Mm. Do you feel like, um, steam programming can kind of be used to bridge that gap? Because it includes the arts, but also includes science and technology and engineering and math, which are typically dominated by.

Men or boys? Yes, I

think so, because I believe now even more so, people are recognizing the importance of art and what it plays into the workplace in the 21 first century, 21st century skill sets. Um, so especially again, finding men who want to mentor and be a part of this movement, um, that have, that have the experience and are willing to share and.

Show women how, let’s have them aboard, right? Mm-hmm. . So through Steam we can definitely do that by highlighting those steam careers, those that have been professional, um, successful, sorry, not professional, but successful in their careers, and have them coming along to say yes. , this is the pathway that I took.

It might not necessarily be the same pathway for you, but mm-hmm. , encouraging kids to be flexible and, and going on that journey to see where it can take them. I think it’s important that we hear from both voices, uh, to, to ensure that we have access for, for girls to see what’s possible.

Yeah, absolutely.

So I’m gonna shift gears a little bit. Um, you and I know each other because you did, you came through our Arts Integration Certification program mm-hmm. , um, which we now have a STEAM leadership program, which is a slightly different about setting that up. But, um, you came through with the AI program and so I’m curious, how did the.

In that program, maybe influence or change in any way, um, your approach with, with a company. So

like what I explained to you when I was deciding, I wanted a solid foundation to lean on, um, with Ace and Co. I didn’t wanna just be talking like, Yes, STEAM is important, but not having like facts and backgrounds.

So when I joined this, this program, it was mind blowing. It was mind blowing, the sense. I had no idea. . I’m so glad that I actually decided to understand the importance and exactly what is arts integration. Otherwise I would be telling people like, yes, um, paint the robot. Yes. Add some color. Like, you know what I mean?

Where it was. So more than that. So going through the program and understanding as an educator, um, how important it’s to align. The, um, the contents from both the art standard and the subject matter, and also that it can not only, like I was thinking more of the sense of just steam careers, but, um, attending your program made me realize this is a way to get those students that are struggling in certain contents.

To find another way for them to actually understand using the both standards. Um, so that one in itself, it was mind blowing. So it’s like, okay, now I can actually talk to educators from a different perspective. Yes, the steam careers are super important, but how. Like how is Steam? What is steam? How like having two teachers from like an art standard as well as like maybe science come together to figure out like how we can make this lesson impactful for these students, How we can get them thinking on a different, um, A mindset opposed to like, you know, this one way, that strict this structure, this strict way of learning is not resonating with them.

Okay, So how can we incorporate that with math and dance and all of that. So that opened up a whole world for me cuz I’m so passionate about arts period. Um, so it also changed my narrative of like how I’m gonna be speaking to people about this amazing stuff.

Mm, That’s so good. Um, and it’s so interesting cuz everybody has a different aha when they go through the program, which I, it’s, I always love to hear like what it is, um, that you got from it.

Because some people, it’s, it’s just the format. Right. It’s just the format of the program and how we structure it. It’s not even so much the content, it’s the relationship building. It’s the, um, the intensity of the work, um, or, and, and how the products build upon each other and other people. It’s the content itself, which is, um, I always like that component cuz that’s, that’s what changed for me when I first discovered arts integration.

I think it’s just, it’s a powerful medium, right? It’s a powerful medium to. All learners, right? Uhhuh, , and to continue to grow ourselves. Uhhuh , definitely. Um, so since we’re just chatting, do you have any questions for, you know what? I don’t think that you and I have had an opportunity to do a one-on-one. Um, I know you’ve worked with, with our staff and Jamie and Tiff and, um, so many, Yeah.

So I’m, Do you have any questions for me? Oh

my gosh. Um, where can I start? I was like, when I heard that I’m gonna be talking to you on a one

on one, I was like, Oh my gosh, this is gonna be so amazing.

Like how you’ve, you structured everything, even like the, the visuals, even the modules and the team that you put together was so amazing.

And I know this is such like a big, broad question, but how did you do it? How long did it take you to get to where, where it is? And you must be so proud. Um, like even when I just sign into the, the platform. Vis everything. Everything was just so appealing to me and made me even want to learn more. But yeah.

How

did, how did you do it? Oh my gosh. You’re so funny. Thank you so much by the way. Um, but, um, I don’t ever do it alone, right? Of course, we have this amazing team. When I first started, I didn’t have. I was just me. And if everything was kind of wonky, um, like , I knew what I wanted to create. I had kind of created it with a, with my school, then I did it at a district level.

Um, but what I realized was as I was looking at Steph and, and this evolved, like I, I think I started our organization back in 2008, officially, um, November of 2008. And so back then, you know, um, the internet was a baby. Mm-hmm. , um, cell phones were just coming into play, you know what I mean? Like it was, Yeah, it was the wild, wild west.

So, um, the resources that were available were like print resources that you had to buy that were thousands of dollars to print, right? Mm-hmm. . Um, so I ended up looking at all of those and realizing that the more visually appealing something is, the more somebody else is willing to. Yes. Um, it, and we still see that, um, it’s, we actually, we, we look at a lot of different things all the time in order to try to figure out what’s gonna be most beneficial for people, what’s gonna make it easiest for, for people to consume.

Mm-hmm. . Um, not for them to necessar, not the work. We don’t want it, the work to be. Super easy. The work is really intense. It is , but yeah, . But, um, when you look at it, we’re constantly asking, How do I streamline this? Because, um, your iteration of certification when you went through, um, was probably number three.

That was the third iteration of certification. The people who went through the very first. Right. Um, like applaud them because each of the, of the modules were like an hour. Mm-hmm. and yours were 15 minutes. Right? Like, so each of those modules, like they were an hour, there was a lot of written content because there is so much information and so we’re constantly thinking, Okay, how do we streamline, how do we make this, um, so that it’s not So I.

Right, Because arts integration, steam is, um, it’s intimidating at first for people especially because like if, if I’m an arts teacher and I’m looking at steam and my principal says, Let’s, let’s look at some STEAM content, that’s scary for me because I don’t know anything about science. Right? Yes. Um, and it’s, you know, how do I do that if I don’t have that skill set?

So to take something that’s already intimidating and then to layer that with all of the nuances that go into it is a challenge. So the, I think the number one thing for us is one, we look at, um, we have a broad. Team, which I was fortunate enough, most of them came to find me, which I was, um, like, Oh, this is like God given, Like I didn’t do that.

They found me, which was amazing. Um, and I really truly consider them to be my friends as well as my coworkers and colleagues, which I think is helpful. Mm-hmm. , um, And we all have very different perspectives, and I think that’s something that’s a challenge as well as something that’s such a benefit because something that I see, uh, somebody else doesn’t see it that way.

It, it comes across to them as something else. And that’s so helpful before we go out to everybody else to teach it, right? Mm-hmm. . Because if, if TIP is saying, Well, to me that comes across. This, and that’s not how I intended at all. Then we go back to the drawing board. Okay, how do I convey what it is that I actually mean?

Mm-hmm. . Um, and how do we simplify it, You know, which is, it’s ironic that I’m saying all of this to essentially boil it down to those two things. , right? having diverse opinions and being able to work through those diverse opinions, of course. Um, and then simplify things as much as possible and make them visually appealing so that people.

Um, can ingest them in a way that they don’t feel overwhelmed. They feel energized by it. Yes. Yes. And you were still,

we successful with that because, Just even the colors that you chose, making it bright. Even like the, the, the communications, the, the content itself, It was, the work was intense, but the, the, the communication was enticing.

It was like encouraging as well. So as you went through the modules and. Oh my gosh. Your staff is amazing as well. They’re, they’re

awesome. So lucky. They’re, they’re amazing. They’re, and

like, just, it’s super encouraging. So for me who didn’t have an educator background, it was, it was kind of a struggle for me, right?

Cause I was like, Okay, I’ve never done this before. But having your team and then having the, the work being enticing and the colors and whatnot, if you felt like. I can do this.

, it started

Makes sense. And the patience. Oh,

it was awesome. Oh, thank you. Thank you. And yeah, everybody, That’s the other thing that we realized.

Probably year two was that the amount of support that people were gonna need, Right. Um, the encouragement and, and also, you know, it’s just like, it’s just like teaching kids. Um, you know, everybody, when you have a classroom, you want it to be bright and colorful and welcoming, right? So you make the same kind of space.

You also want teachers who. When you struggle, they’re not gonna get angry. They’re not gonna lose their patience. They’re not gonna get frustrated. They’re gonna find a different way around the information to help you succeed, right? Mm-hmm. . So it’s just good teaching, you know, . So I’m for that.

For that. So what’s next?

What’s next? So you started this new. Um, program, the Steam Leaders Leadership Program. Yeah. So what are you, what is your hopes with, with that and what’s

next? So we actually developed the STEAM Leadership program because, um, a lot of people were. Either going through the Arts Integrations certification program because their schools were becoming STEAM schools.

Mm-hmm. a way to understand how to integrate, um, or they were leaders and so they had, they had gone through our program and they, they were like, This is a lot of great information, but then how do I, the practical set it up? Like how do you, It’s, it’s one thing to construct the walls on the ground, it’s another one to lift them up and to have a standing building, right?

Sure. So the STEAM Leadership Certification program that actually evolved between and I, the IAS Team, um, our IAS Team and myself, and we sat down and looked. All of the STEAM programs that currently exist. We went through, I mean, , I can’t even tell you how many master’s programs, certification programs we worked with.

Um, we were fortunate enough to be able to reach out to state leaders mm-hmm. , um, across the country and be able to ask them, what are you working on with steam in your schools, at your state level? What are the gaps that you’re seeing? Um, we worked with some organizations, some national organizations who work with, as a bridge between employers and um, and schools, and asked where their gaps were and then literally created a program that if you go through it, by the end of it, you will be able.

Create a steam program that sustains itself beyond whatever initial money you get to start it. Mm. Um, so that is super exciting. We have our, we have our, uh, initial group in there and they’re already having some incredible success. They’re doing, um, just an amazing job. Um, And I’m excited to kind of keep that open and see that grow as states and schools are becoming, um, steam focused.

I’m also seeing, and I’m actually excited for this, I’m seeing a big kind of renaissance for arts integration. Right. For a long time it was, it’s steam focused and Steam is so, Related to arts integration. Yes. Um, I felt for a while, like arts integration became this like, you know, second child, , middle child, like, ugh.

Um, but it’s kind of seeing a resurgence, which is great. Uh, for us, we’re just, um, we’re working on helping as many teachers and administrators as possible use arts integration and steam in whatever way that looks, whether that’s through our accelerator platform. Um, if it’s through a certification or even event.

Mm-hmm. , we’re doing an online book club this summer. Has, have you heard about this? Not yet. Not yet. Oh my gosh. I’m so excited. We’re calling it bookmarked, so we’re bookmark. Um, and, um, We’re gonna, it’s, it’s gonna be an interactive online teacher focused book club in the month of July. Um, and people are gonna be able to get PD hours for it.

We’re gonna have our sponsors who are doing some amazing giveaways. Um, I’m excited for that. It’s totally different than what we’ve done in the past, but I think, uh, it could be really fun. So that’s what we’re up to. What are you up to next, Miss Antoinette?

I know, but before we go to what I’m up to next.

Does the, the, the STEAM Leadership program replace

arts integration? Nope. Double two or Nope. Silo. They are, Nope, they’re in tandem. So ai, so the certification, you bring up a good point. Arts Integration Certification has a level one and a level two. Yes. And we’re. We’re working on a level three, which is Accrediting schools as Arts Integration schools.

Mm-hmm. , But that’s sh, that’s . Um, that’s our secret project. Um, but level one is specifically getting the groundwork for it. Level two, in Arts Integration certification is meant to be able to coach people through arts integration. Mm-hmm. . So if you now have the foundations. How do you coach others through it?

The STEAM certification program is not meant to replace that. It’s supposed, it’s meant for people who are specifically working in, in STEAM schools, not arts integration schools. Mm-hmm. , who are looking to lead that effort. So it, it’s. Specifically deals with the challenges that leaders have. Like it gives you budgets, it works through how to approach community partners.

It’s, uh, how do you evaluate a STEAM lesson? Mm-hmm. , the, the practical nitty gritty of steam is focused in that program, Whereas arts integration certification, level one and level two is really meant to give you the foundational components of the arts integration approach and then how to coach others.

Okay,

awesome. Thank you. Yeah. Okay, so now you can go with, You’re welcome.

Yeah. So no, I would love to hear what is next for you. Cause you’re just like a power woman. Every time I see you, you’re doing something new and different and amazing.

Ah, thank you. Thank you. Um, right now I think the focus is let’s, um, I’m, we’re looking at who do we wanna interview next, um, that has that both arts passion and, you know, their career and how they’ve, they’ve.

Um, blended to two. Uh, that’s one thing that we’re looking at, to seeing that we have more episodes of, of sharing those and, uh, working with, uh, other recruiters, so independent recruiters as well, so that when we do have the request for more females in a certain field, um, with steam, you know, having recruiters to help us.

Place those, those, and also doing some coaching as well. So university students, high school students that just want some coaching about, you know, what are they struggling with. So maybe that we could figure out what it is that’s, that’s disconnect that why they’re leaving the program. So how can we motivate them to stay in the program?

So coaching and recruiting and exploring. So those are the three. Coaching, recruiting, exploring, Those are the things that. We’re looking into and who knows where that’s gonna

take us . Right. That’s the, that’s the beauty of the whole thing, right? Is that you never know, You never know what’s around the corner.

Ok. Um, so my last question for you is the question that I try to ask everyone. Mm-hmm. , um, if there was one thing you’d like people to know about the creative process in your field and what’s you’re working on, what, what would.

Ah, the creative process. So one thing you, you mentioned is like, with yours, with your business, you’re like, you couldn’t do it alone.

Um, the creative process is so important to, to dream and visualize where you want it to go, but it is so important to have those other voices to kind of bounce it off to make sure that you’re going into the, the right direction. So with me, I love to dream. I love creativity, but also I have to have. Be realistic as well.

So I have those voices that are more linear thinking than I am to kind of help, you know, blend and making sure we’re going in the right direction. So I’m like, Yeah, I have this amazing idea. And then I’ll have someone who be like, It can work if we do this calculation, that calculation, or maybe it won’t work, but let’s look into that.

So that, that’s, that’s from me. So with creativity, Dream as much as you can, but be collaborative and be open and be flexible to get other people’s opinions to help bring that dream to actual reality. So dreaming is great, but you need to have a framework to make the dream

happen. Yeah. Yeah, I totally love that.

And, and it’s so true. You’re absolutely right. Um, Tony, where can people find information about you and connect with you? Oh, so definitely they’ll,

so they can go to the website, ace and co.ca, um, and our, and our information is on there. And they can email at info ace and co.ca as well. And we’re also on Instagram, Ace and co.

Yay, Ltd.

. Awesome. All right. Well, thank you so much, Tony for being here and chatting with me today. It was a lot of fun.

Thank you. It was a lot of fun as well. Susan. I can’t wait to talk to you again. Take care. All

right, you too.