Think creativity and productivity can’t happen simultaneously? Think again. In this episode, Team Grundler chats with Lisa Johnson about how process and product can combine in how we get stuff done.

Show Transcript

Matt: Hey everybody, this is Matt and Laura Grundler again with Creatively Connected Classroom. And, in our episode today we are talking with Lisa Johnson and her book, Creatively Productive. And, I know that there’s a lot of history in knowing Lisa, and I know Laura has more.

Laura: Well, it’s just exciting, It’s like that iPad Palooza connection thing all over again. I feel like however many years ago, meeting all of these people from iPad Palooza connected us to a lot of really great things and a lot of really great people, and I just have kept following Lisa on Twitter and Instagram and wherever else she posts. And, she’s got a great blog called Tech Chef For You. And, she’s in Texas as well. So, welcome to the program. Super excited to have you, Lisa.

Lisa: Thank you for having me, And, yes, it’s cool meeting people in person, and then staying connected through social media. I just love all the stuff that y’all do creatively and artistically. And Laura, I absolutely love your journaling, and I absolutely owe you a journal back. So, I have it, and I will give it back to you at Learn Fest.

Laura: Okay, sounds good.

Lisa: I have it, and it’ll have things in it as well.

Laura: Well, I propose a journaling session at Learn Fest that’s hands-on, and it was meant for you. So hopefully, you can make it.

Matt: So, you’ll have no excuse!

Laura: Yeah.

Lisa: Well actually, we’re working on the scheduling of Learn Fest. So, I’ll make sure that my schedules are not on top of that. I’ll just strategically make sure that I can attend that.

Matt: There you go. I’m off at this time!

Laura: And then, I have agreed to some kind of dumb pepper challenge, and I’m kicking myself.

Lisa: Oh!

Matt: Thanks to Carl.

Laura: Yeah. Look at your face right now. I’m like; Why?

Lisa: Yeah, yeah.

Laura: So I don’t know.

Matt: Carl suggested it, and for some dumb reason you said; Yeah sure!

Laura: Yeah sure! Why not? I don’t know what I was … We were having a great conversation and I just …

Matt: You wanted to say yes.

Laura: … Yeah.

Lisa: So, you might wanna clarify too. These are not bell peppers?

Laura: Right.

Matt: These are, yeah.

Lisa: These are hot peppers.

Laura: I heard something about a ghost pepper being in the mix?

Lisa: Yeah, yeah.

Laura: Whatever!

Matt: The wheel of misfortune that used to be in it.

Laura: Yeah. I don’t know. I might have to … I don’t know. We’ll see. I’m actually, I’m excited though. I’m super excited to be back down in Austin for that event and be with all of you. But I feel like I’m just talking to you.

Matt: Back to you.

Laura: Back to you.

Matt: So, what is your … If you can, tell our listeners a little bit about you, and how your journey through where you are now.

Lisa: Yeah. Well, it’s funny. I’ve been writing ever since I was in second grade. I’ve always loved to write or journal, or make lists and things like that. I’ve always been that way. It’s kind of interesting when you talk to adults, and certain things that come into fruition. And you then had a look at their childhood. A lot of those things started then, so, yeah. I loved to write. I loved to be artistic and things of that nature, long before devices were in the mix.

Lisa: So, I am currently an Educational Technologist. I work at a one-to-one iPad high school with one of your guests as well, Carl Hooker. He’s kind of the, I would say something of innovation. But, director of all invention! No! But, yeah, a lot of things that resonate with me. And, what I try to do is, I try to get a pulse because I work with high school students. And so, I take a pulse of things that are happening, trends that I’m seeing beyond that time frame.

Lisa: And, that’s what I put together when it came into writing the book and things of that nature. It’s just, there’s so much going on. I guess, 10 or so years ago, we had a huge digital swing with all the things that we can now do with devices. And, what’s really interesting is, when that happened, now you’re starting to see. I don’t wanna say a backlash, because it’s not a backlash. But, you are seeing that pendulum write itself. And, it’s like; Okay, yes. We like these things. There’s a lot of power. But, we also have to be really mindful of how we’re using them.

Lisa: And now, they’re in the mix. Yes, they make a lot of things easier. But at the same time, that comes with a cost of, now, we can do so much more. What does time management look like? Things like that. I know, we’ve talked about being ADD, and addressing those sort of things. And, just all of the things that come with technology and self-management skills, and things of that nature. So, at the same time, I guess a few years ago … And, I know, Laura and I have talked about this as well.

Lisa: I started a bullet journal. I started journaling some more. It’s interesting. Sometimes, there are things that work for us. And, for whatever reason, we just give them up when we are in high school or college, or, just life gets in the way. And so, that was something that I had done for a very long time is journaling and scrap booking, and reading. And, you know, you have kids. You get a full-time job.

Laura: Life happens! Yeah.

Lisa: Life happens! And so, what’s interesting is, a few years ago, I went back to that. And, I think a lot of people, if you’re following bullet journalists or just all kinds of different people in Instagram, things like that. There’s a lot of people who have gone back to that, or maybe never left that. I think there’s a lot of power in that. So, that’s where a lot of the things …

Lisa: I just felt like, this is something that I need to share, because we’re at a timeframe where we need to look at what’s important, and how we can make those things happen, and really figure out life and analog, and digital, and all of those things. And, be productive too, which is a whole nother layer of life.

Laura: Well, I’m thinking about the productive part. I’ve thought a lot about this, because we talk a lot about traditional art, and the idea of balancing traditional art forms and digital art forms. And, one bleeds into the other, and back and forth. Just even with the productivity part of it, one of the things that you have to teach kids is, how to organize all of that, how to store all of that. Right now, we’re sitting in our studio, and it is a hot mess! I mean, that’s part of being a creative is that, you make a mess. Right?

Lisa: Absolutely.

Laura: When you’re doing this, you’re making a mess. And, that can be a digital mess, or it can be all the stuff intensive of your traditional artist, all the stuff that comes along with that. And, you have to learn how to manage that mess, and organize that mess in order to be productive. That’s one of the things that I know a lot of creatives struggle with, myself included. It’s for sure. And, you cannot, going back to the digital side things. I was looking for some of my notes, my Sketch Notes for my iPad, this week. I couldn’t find them anywhere. And, I’m like; I do not store anything.

Matt: You’re like; I’m these digital files!

Laura: Yeah. I need to learn how to file things digitally, as well as in the real world. So, there’s just so many tips in your book. What brought that forward for you in writing about that?

Lisa: Well, yeah. Digital organization, it’s funny, because I’ve always been analog organized. Things are out, everything’s alphabetized and color-coded. I have a special drawer or whatever. Yeah. In the book, I mentioned I alphabetize my DVDs, and then also by genre. This is the legit thing that I do. This is not-

Laura: I think you’re definitely or a media specialist.

Matt: Do you have the tape line around the different tools that are hanging up on the peg boards and pencil, and …

Lisa: Oh, yeah. I don’t take it that far. But, I do have a label maker. Yeah.

Laura: Yeah.

Lisa: So, there is that.

Matt: You had one.

Laura: Yeah, I use duct tape, and then a sharpie!

Matt: That’s our label maker!

Lisa: That works too! Yeah, I mean, analog organization is fine. We’ve had filing cabinets, that sort of stuff. You can see things. You know where it goes visually. And, it obviously gets in your way. If you’re walking in a room, you have to deal with it. Whereas, digital, it has been really interesting because, especially with the cloud stuff. And, the fact that you have things in Google. You have things in Evernote. You have things over here on Thinglink. And, I have 14 different accounts that I’ve built and shared content on, more than 14.

Lisa: And so, I knew I was going through this. I know that I’ve sat in many a meeting where we’ve spent a lot of time looking for a document that should be really easy to find. It doesn’t make any sense! It’s like; Oh, it’s in the shared folder. I’m like; What was the shared folder name? Do you remember? And then, without fail, every year, I have students who come and talk to me because they’ve lost either their notes somewhere, they had an essay that is gone. It just happens a lot. And so, I figured, if I’m struggling with this, if students are struggling with this, it’s a conversation that needs to be had.

Lisa: So, that’s what and why I felt that was so important. Because, I think too, if you can’t find the things that are important to you, and that you need to be able to find, then that’s problematic. Because, it does make you less productive. So, it’s figuring out what your processes are. And, the other thing that came with this was, I was always very … and, I mentioned this since I was two … like an anti-Kramer; Hey, have you seen high two deck? Hey, check out this new tool. It’s awesome! And at some point … I know, it’s way better with the hand motion!

Laura: Yes, I know. I’m like, I really wanna get us talking.

Lisa: Nobody can see that. It’s fine!

Laura: That’s great!

Lisa: Yeah, but, it’s like, I really started thinking about that. And at some point, I don’t need 14 different tools to take notes. I need one that works really well. And, even if a new one comes out, if it’s working well for me, I don’t need that new tool.

Laura: Right.

Lisa: And so, part of the book talked about vetting new tools, and when to, I don’t want to say stay in your lane. But, keep what you’ve got, because it’s working for you, versus scrapping something and adding in something new. Because, I think, we get inundated with all of these. There’s like; Oh, hey, there’s a new tool to do sketch. Yeah. It’s like, at some point, this works, and I’m not trying to be anti-new things by any means.

Lisa: But, at the same time, you have to find balance. And, if it’s working really well, there’s no reason, necessarily, to jump ship. So, part of that was that. And then, the other part walks through keeping a portfolio, and organizing things so you can find them. And, in there as well, I talk about note taking or different tools. I say; These are the four or five tools that I use. Evernote, I use a lot just for nonsense notes and different things in there.

Lisa: Or, if I’ll type up, I have all of my section descriptions when I submit to places. So, I find them pretty easily, and I’ll make some changes, things like that. So, I use that. Obviously, I’ll use Google Docs if I’m doing a collaborative document. I rarely use the notes on my phone, because, I don’t know. It’s on my phone, and I don’t wanna mess with it.

Laura: Right.

Lisa: Yes, I know there’s files and all that yada, yada, yada. I already have something that works for me.

Laura: Yep.

Lisa: So, it’s figuring that out. And sometimes, that’s like sitting there and almost dumping it out on the table, and saying; These are all the things I’m using. Can a thing be condensed? Do I need to add anything? Okay. And then, move forward with that.

Laura: I totally agree with that.

Matt: I understand that too.

Laura: Yeah.

Matt: I’m would think about my school bag and my work bag that I would take with me back and forth to school. What things do I need, versus random pieces of paper or random whatever that I’m finding in there that I’m like; Why is this even in here? And so, it’s just-

Laura: Well, I was just thinking about my iPad. There are probably 10 or 12 Apps I use all the time. And then, there’s a bunch of random Apps that I haven’t opened in forever. And, you know, even when you were talking about taking notes. If I’m at a conference, and I have my … I do both as well actually. I always have my, I’m getting ready for a conference, and I have a little journal, because I like to take a real journal with me that’s for the conference. And then, I can go back and put my hand on that journal and see everything that I collected through that journal and find it.

Laura: But then, if I’m in a keynote presentation, I love to have my iPad for my Sketch Notes. So, it’s like a back and forth thing. I do both. But, how many years is it now? I’ve been using Paper 53 since forever. I love it still. Everybody’s like; You could do Adobe Sketch. Or, you could do, whatever, blah, blah blah. And, I’m like; I could, but I’m comfortable with this. I like it, and it works for me. And, that’s what I use.

Laura: So, I just think that, that’s a huge key is, finding what you’re comfortable, what works. And, it’s hard because there are so many things thrown at you all the time. So, yeah, that’s my thought on that. I actually wanted to talk a little bit more about Sketch Noting and note taking. You have a lot of information in the book about note-taking. And, funny enough, I think, as a human who grew up dyslexic, my mom taught me to mind map. Back in the day, that was what we called it.

Laura: And, actually, my mind maps always turned into sketches and drawings, which makes sense. Right? But, I think it’s so funny how that’s become such a thing these days. But at the same time, Matt just discovered, his whole campus doesn’t even know what it is or how to use it. And, we’re like; What? So, what are some of your best tips and tricks for note taking in general?

Lisa: Yeah, I mean, I found the same thing to be true, and that’s why I wanted to get into that. So, it was like; Yes, if I saw my mapping or sketch noting happening, it was only happening in one pocket and curriculum, and it wasn’t being transferred to other ones. So, they just assume; Oh, if I’m reading Shakespeare, then I might mind map this. But, they didn’t think; Oh, if I’m in Biology, and we’re studying this, this may make sense for that as well.

Lisa: And so, yeah, in the book itself, I walk through the four main types of note-taking, and a little bit of pros. I don’t wanna say pros and cons. It’s just when you might use this one, and when you might not. So, in outlines, a lot of people use outlines. But, in a fast-paced lecture, it may be hard to use something like that. So, it’s talking to you about that. And then, there’s other examples, I think, that are really helpful.

Lisa: I would tell you that I ended up using a lot of mind maps/Sketch Noting. That’s how my notes end up too. And for me, mine are analogued, just because I won’t pay attention otherwise. I know this about myself! I’ll end up on my phone, or I’ll have something pop up on the screen. I just know myself, and it’s just easier.

Laura: Yep.

Lisa: And like you, I do. Because I started keeping them in a notebook, I end up going back and finding them, and actually referring back to them, which I think is really powerful.

Laura: Yep.

Lisa: So, yeah, I mean, there’s definitely some people in there that I would, you know, Karen Bosch, I mentioned. I love that she does actual templates for her Sketch Notes. That’s what’s really fascinating to me, is, yes, you get into Sketch Noting, or any type of note taking. And then, you really start to see certain styles. I was talking at UT to some students who were … actually, they’re pre-service teachers, but they’re students at UT. So, we’re all students and teachers in some capacity.

Laura: Right.

Matt: Oh, yeah.

Lisa: But, it was interesting, because we talking about note taking and what that looks like, and how they can encourage their students to take better notes. And, one of the things that I was talking to them about is; Why don’t you have your students trade their notes with a fellow student? Because, there’s such power in looking at how somebody else organizes and processes information, that you’re not gonna get just from having somebody say; Okay, you’re gonna put a title here. A mind map is gonna spread out here and here.

Lisa: And so, I think there’s a lot of power in just sharing, following the hashtags. I know that y’all have interviewed people who do this. I know that you do this. Just looking at how people organize that, and being really observant of the strategies that they’ve used, and the different tools that they’ve used. And, even just asking them, you know. Hey, I see that you’ve done a sketch. What App are you using? Or, do you actually organize your notes? Do you make a frame around them? Do you have any color-coding? What does that look like?

Lisa: That’s really I did is, I just saw people who took awesome notes, and I asked them; What are you doing? I’m noticing. What is your process? Do you find that to be really powerful, beneficial? Things like that.

Laura: I think, from a teacher’s standpoint, I was just thinking about Matt’s teachers that he’s working with on his campus, and I’ll let him talk more about this. But, I thought it was interesting. They gave the kids templates, or not, they could do either way. They were introducing Sketch Notes. And, I thought that was … I was glad that they did that, because, for me, I need a blank page. But, for a lot of people, they would need more structure. Yeah.

Laura: And so, to give them that choice, I think, was really important. But, what I see is that, oftentimes, teachers are like; No, we’re using Cornell Notes. Everybody has to use Cornell Notes. This is what we’re doing. And that, honestly, would’ve never worked for me. It’s just, I need a big blank page.

Matt: And, it has the possibilities to turn kids off, or to turn anybody off for that matter.

Lisa: Yeah.

Matt: You know, I was thinking, as you were talking about that, about process. Things with the stringer cord that’s now on iPads, and the Time-lapse video that’s in Procreate. I have found that, if you were to let the kids use that as their documentation, as their notes, you can see their thought process, especially if it’s in Time-lapse. It’s probably 45 seconds to a minute of their notes that may have taken them 25 minutes to do.

Matt: But, you will see where their mistakes are, where they backed up, where they changed something to maybe improve or not improve. And, I actually gave my own example. I was at my school talking with the English teachers And, they were telling me what they were getting ready to do. They were doing Greek mythology. And, I did a whole thing of Sketch Noting, just based on the topic that they were talking about.

Matt: And, I did it as a screen record. I sent it to them, and they actually shared it with their classes and said; You know, this is one example, or a way that you can take notes. And so, that was pretty cool.

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Lisa: I love that. I absolutely do. And, I agree with both of you on the templates, because that’s what I was finding on the research was, not fill-in-the-blank.

Laura: Right, yeah.

Lisa: If you did give, because some kids are terrified of a blank page.

Laura: Absolutely.

Lisa: It doesn’t bother me …

Laura: Right.

Lisa: … but, I’m with you.

Matt: Art’s the same way, yeah.

Laura: Yeah. There’s lots of quotes out there from artists about the blank canvas being the scariest thing!

Matt: That first mark, it just, you know. But then, you have Peter Reynolds who just says; Make a mark and see where it goes.

Laura: Yeah. One of the questions you said in our chat, when you hosted the K12 chat, was about using some habit-tracking to achieve personal goals, or professional goals, even. So, tell us a little bit about habit-tracking.

Lisa: Yeah, I’m so glad you asked! Sorry, I say something. I’m gone! So, habit to us about. And, I think that’s where we were with all of this, which is awesome. What I was finding, because I do have some ADD, you know. And, I’m sure that you’ll resonate those with us. Anytime you’re doing something hard, anytime you’re doing something that can’t be finished in a day, like, write a book or complete some artwork, it is. It’s continuing that momentum, one.

Lisa: And then, two, removing things that would take away from that momentum. And so, that’s really what habit-trackers are. The idea is, you can track things to get rid of, and you can also track things to add. So, for me, things that I wanted to have more in my life, were writing every day or reading every day. So, basically, you would just have a box, 31 boxes or however many days are in a month. And then, you can essentially just put an X on the lines that you have done whatever task it is that you wanna do or whatever habit.

Lisa: And then, if you haven’t that day, then you would leave it blank. So, that would be something in a positive way, like reading or writing every day, or eating healthy, something like that, things that I didn’t wanna do as much. Or, eating out every day, or, I’m not eating out every day, but we eat out far more than we should. And, I really wanted to condense the amount of money that was being spent on those things!

Lisa: So, the other thing was just watching Netflix. I love Netflix. I think there’s a lot of creativity and things of that nature. But, at the same time, it takes away from what I was trying to do. And so, I would just have a; Hey, I haven’t watched Netflix for four days. Yay, me! And, it’s that visual component. I think we’re, and I say this in the book to, it’s like we’re poor historians of ourselves.

Lisa: And so, what we think we’ve done, and how we think we feel, looking back at a month or even last week, is typically not always accurate. And so, if you’re doing that in the moment, and you’re tracking it on a daily basis, then, you have a much better accuracy of doing what you need to do. It’s kinda like that episode in Friends with, The One With The Ball. I watched a lot of Friends, way more than I should have!

Lisa: But, it’s like, The One With The Ball. The more you keep going, you know, throwing the ball back-and-forth. Once you’ve done it for an hour, you’re like; Well, damn! I don’t want to have to drop it now. I wanna keep going. And so, exactly. The more times; Wow, I’ve done this for 15 days in a row. Okay. I can do it for a few more. That’s not a big deal. So, just visually tracking those things. You can do it in pretty much any tool.

Laura: That’s awesome. I really struggle with that one a lot. I just got a new journal where it does have that habit-tracker in there. I don’t even have to draw it myself! All I have to do is check it off! And, I still am not tracking all the habits that I’m trying to work on!

Matt: What do they say, three weeks? Three weeks’ a habit?

Laura: Something like that.

Lisa: Like 20 days or whatever, yeah.

Laura: I’ve got a way to go!

Matt: We all have our flaws. It’s okay.

Lisa: Yeah.

Laura: One of the things too that you said in the chat was, wishing you could create more time, which is what I liked about what you were just talking about, the habit-tracker, about carving out time. You know, people often ask me; How in the world do you journal? Because, I do it almost every day, even if it’s just for a few minutes. And, I think that, a while back, there’s a little bit of setting your priorities or your values. How do you pull that into carving out the time and the habit-tracking and all that? How do you focus in on those values?

Lisa: Well, in chapter four, actually, I started before the habit-trackers, because you’re absolutely right. I mean, you can set goals for yourself. But, if your goals don’t align with who you are and what your values are, you’re not gonna get very far with it. So, for me, I did one recently. My three values are; respect, creativity, and alone time.

Lisa: And so, I try to. I know how vital those three things are to just myself as a human being. And so, I really try to, as I’m making decisions about things; Okay, well, I know that I need alone time. I know that I need time to be creative. And, if I’m doing these other things, that’s taking away from that time that it’s a lifeblood to, you know, whatever I’m trying to do. So, it’s not perfect. But, I think … And I know you journal. So, a lot of people who do this, they’ll write those words, or they’ll have one word for the year, whatever that is.

Lisa: But, just starting with that before you do anything else, it just resonates to go back to. I’ve already … That’s just such a goal. But, it’s like; This is who I am, and this is who I wanna be. And, you have to just stay true to that.

Laura: I think you just hit it on the nail. It’s really about self-discovery and figuring out who you are. For me, seven years as an assistant principal, and it was time to become a principal. I had this moment where I’m like; You know! There’s something missing! And, what was missing was the art. Just like you said, life happens. We had, had three kids all during that seven year period of being an assistant principal at a really big high school. And then, I had moved to a middle school to try to balance life a little bit, but it was also a very challenging school. I have a niche for working with troubled …

Matt: Challenging.

Laura: … challenging …

Matt: Tricky friends!

Laura: … tricky friends! And, I think that, that’s a nice thing. But, at the same time, I needed to find the balance. And, there were just-

Matt: You were finding the time constraints of the job, or leaving less of you when you came home.

Laura: Yeah. I wasn’t there for the kids or even myself. And, I think, owning who you are is a key component. And honestly, I wasn’t a whole human being without art. And so, it was somewhere in that time period that I realized, if I’m not creating every day, I’m not a whole human being. And so, that is one thing I can own about who I am, and what my values are. And, it’s just my way of dealing with emotions and feelings. For me, I don’t have to be alone. I can be in a room with 10 people and make art. It doesn’t matter.

Laura: But, I need to be doing some mixed media somewhere, some watercolor, some. I need to make a big mess. Yeah, so, I think it’s really just about taking the time to reflect on your, and figure out those core values, and what your needs are. And, it’s okay to make it about you. I think that’s something, too, that we struggle with as teachers, probably more than others is that, we give so much of ourselves to other people that, you gotta take a few minutes to really reflect on what you need, and how you can be productive.

Laura: And then, that productivity, if you can really … I used to do a list to inspire me all the time, because I’m not good at that. But, I’ve been doing them, and I felt so much more productive a daily to-do list. How crazy is that? So, yeah, back to you. Tell us a little bit more about your list! Talk to us about list. You’re a list girl!

Lisa: I’ve made lists since I was young. I honestly don’t know that I could function without them. And so, I think that just goes back to you knowing yourself. It’s like, I know that I need a list. I need a list when I go to the store. I need a list for what I’m gonna do tonight, which is students and podcast, and, seriously, it says podcast! And then, it says taxes. Oh, those are fun!

Laura: That’s still on our …

Matt: That’s somewhere on our list!

Laura: … That’s somewhere on our list, yeah.

Matt: Where? I don’t know!

Lisa: It’s on one of those lists! But yeah. I also think lists are an intriguing sort of thing. I mean, I make lists, daily lists, and things of that nature. But, I also make lists of things that I wanna do, and places that I wanna visit, and books that I wanna read, and books that I’ve read. And so, I think that there’s a power to documenting life. I really feel like that’s what it is.

Lisa: I mean, the to-do lists are a little bit different in a sense of maintaining productivity. But, I think there’s a lot of power just to list in general. And, I will say too, getting to the student side of this. Some of the things that we’ve talked about might be daunting to a student. But, making a list, it’s not a hard thing to do.

Laura: Right.

Lisa: And so, if you ask the student to make a list of things they need to do, or make a list of books that they wanna read, or things like that, it’s very easy to generate those things. And so, I think that’s a great place to start. And, just looking back at old lists, and things are kinda fun. But, yeah, absolutely. I just think it’s a good way to get things out of your brain.

Lisa: I have noticed about myself that when I just feel heavy, or I can’t focus, or I’m having those weird spacey moments, a lot of that is just because I’ve got too much going on in my brain, and I just need to get it all down on paper, and figure out where I need to go so I’m not gonna run into a wall or just put my head down and cry. It’s like a livelihood for me. It’s just all different strategies. All of us have strategies for making things work. That’s just one of those strategies, I feel like, is really powerful.

Matt: I think it creates a peace of mind, especially when you have a list. A tip my mom used to tell me all the time was, when you’re writing a list, write one thing on that list that you’ve already done. That way, you have that feeling, that sense of confidence kick you into your next thing so you can cross it off your list and keep moving on. So, when I do write lists, because I need to get better at that. But, when I do write list, then I try to put that one thing in there so that I can cross it off and feel like I accomplished something.

Laura: Feel accomplished right off the bat. So, I would say it sounds like your mom!

Lisa: Let me cross off podcast right here on this note. Taxes, not so much.

Laura: No.

Matt: No. I can go to them tomorrow.

Laura: You’ve got a few more days for that one.

Lisa: Yeah.

Laura: Everything you share, you’re a sharer. I love your Instagram. I love your blog. If you had one tip as we part for the evening, what would your tip, or trick, or words of wisdom be for the listeners on this podcast?

Lisa: That was very broad and open-ended. Okay.

Laura: Yes.

Matt: That was the point! That was good!

Laura: Yeah!

Lisa: I think … I’m gonna have to think about that for a moment.

Laura: Should I narrow it down to be productive?

Lisa: Yes.

Laura: Okay. Your one tip or thing about being creatively productive.

Lisa: Yeah. I think one of the main things that I start with is the values. So, if you do any of these things, I would start with values. Because, for some people, a messy desk does not make them less productive. So, I don’t want to say messy versus clean. It’s not about that. It’s about finding what works for you, and why you need those things to work for you.

Lisa: And, if you feel like you have areas of deficiency, then those are the areas that, obviously, you need to work on. So, as a tip, I would say, find one thing that works for you, whether it be a list, or a planner, or a digital organization desktop, which is totally my jam! A journal.

Matt: I really like that.

Lisa: Anything!

Laura: He does like your top organizers. Yeah.

Lisa: They make me stupid happy! You don’t even know!

Matt: Oh, I do! Yeah!

Lisa: So, just, find that one thing that really just grounds everything. And then, also … I’m gonna give you two tips, because I’m not one-

Laura: Yeah.

Lisa: Okay.

Laura: Do share!

Lisa: Yeah. I can’t help myself. Sorry.

Laura: Right.

Lisa: And then, just find one person, or more than one person, who has those ideas that you … And, this is not a shameless plug, because I follow. And, as you know in the book, that book is not just all me. It’s not just like; Hey, look at all the pretty notes that I share! There are pretty notes in there.

Laura: Yeah.

Lisa: But, I share a lot of people who inspire me on Instagram and the students, and different things like that for that very reason. So, I would say, yes, find that one thing that works for you. But then, also, find somebody who inspires you.

Laura: Yeah.

Lisa: And, hey, if it’s Laura doing that awesome journaling then, follow Laura. Well, hopefully you’re already following Laura by now. But …

Laura: Yeah, maybe!

Lisa: … Or, hey, Matt. If he’s doing those awesome Time Lapse Sketch Notes, follow that. But, I get so inspired by seeing what people share, and how vulnerable they are about what they share. And, I think that’s the power in the duality in these things is, if you want to gain something, or you wanna learn something, there’s no shortage of people out there that wanna share, but also wanna learn. And, that’s the power, I feel like it’s Instagram specifically just because of the visual content, and how many people are sharing that particular type of content. I think there’s such a power to it.

Laura: Well, Lisa …

Matt: That’s awesome.

Laura: … I know. And, following you has been a real inspiration to us.

Lisa: Aww.

Laura: I really do, we’ve talked about this before, we have several book ideas, and we’re really trying to put them together. But, a lot of that is because you inspire us. People like you that are sharing in that format. And, we have content. It’s just getting over the fear of writing and the productive part, and really learning how to be productive in that framework, how to manage that.

Laura: And so, you’re constantly inspiring us, and we’re so thankful that you could be a part of the chat and the podcast. And, you gave a book to us to give away on Instagram. That was super fun. And, she’s super excited. I can’t wait for her to get it in the mail. So, yeah, it’s been a lot of fun following your book launch and being a part of whatever you’re doing.

Matt: And, continuing to know you …

Laura: Yeah.

Matt: … from when we met at iPad Palooza.

Laura: Oh, that was years ago.

Matt: Oh, that was years ago?

Laura: Yeah.

Lisa: Aw, thank you. I really appreciate that, because I think … And, I think this is something to know about everybody is, a lot of these times, people are sharing things. It’s a gift of time, really, because everything the people are doing and sharing, it does take time.

Laura: Yeah.

Lisa: And, it’s always appreciative, because, I do it for that very reason because I hope that it impacts somebody else, and positively impacts somebody else. But, I really appreciate that. And, I love following y’all as well. I think a book from y’all will be absolutely amazing, so, make that happen.

Matt: Okay, I’ll make it happen! We’ll get right on it, right now. It’s on our list. We’re writing it down right now!

Laura: Yes! It’s on the list!

Matt: Make book for Lisa!

Lisa: Not just for me, but, yes!

Laura: Well, we’re definitely … You know, it’s honestly just that, getting over the hump of learning how to be on a daily pattern of writing, which, again, that’s one of the things that I admire so much in you, is that you do it every day. And hopefully, we’ll get there.

Matt: Yeah.

Lisa: Thank you.

Laura: So, thank you again so much. It was really fun, and we’re really looking forward, hopefully, to seeing you at Learn Fest.

Lisa: Yeah, absolutely.

Laura: And, hopefully, some of our other friends there, and it’s gonna be a good year. So, happy book launching, and travels, and everything else that you’re doing. Yeah.

Lisa: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Matt: Thanks Lisa. I appreciate it.

Laura: Okay.

Matt: Have a good night.

Lisa: Yeah, you too.

Laura: Bye.

Matt: Bye.

Lisa: Have a good evening. Bye.

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